This is the third and final installment of our series The Error of Dispensationalists: Did Israel Reject Jesus?
Part 1 can be read here.
Part 2 can be read here.
In his series of lectures, Did Israel Reject Jesus?, Sheldon Emry exposes the fundamental flaw in dispensational Christian theology that falsely encourages the belief that because “The Jews” rejected their promised messiah — Jesus Christ — that God changed His mind, broke His eternal covenant with the Israelites, and transferred His promises of salvation to all other races and peoples merely on the sole condition that they “believe in Jesus.”
Listen to the audio here:
Of the scores of the verses in the Gospel of John, John 15 is one of the portions of scripture that is often printed separately, but many of these verses are completely ignored or misunderstood as it relates to the Israel people.
John 15:23 is virtually ignored where Jesus Christ said “he that hateth me hateth my Father also“. Those who do not accept Jesus Christ and who actually hate him hate God also.
If we believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth, then we cannot believe the propagandist called “ministers” who tells us, “Well, the Jews love the God of the Old Testament. It’s just that they haven’t recognized Jesus as their messiah.” Not so. Jesus Christ said they hate him therefore they hate God.
John 15 goes on:
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
The Israel people are never identified as the enemies of God. They could only be in the Gospel of John, where they are called “Jews”, they could only be the Edomite Jews in contrast to the Israelite Judeans who then came to know and to love Jesus.
He goes on to his own disciples in the next verses:
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Who was to receive the Comforter, the Holy Ghost which would then testify to the person who received it of Jesus Christ but the Israel people, who was to be the witnesses to Jesus Christ?
The Israel people, the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
If we do not believe that the “gentiles” as we know them, who are the Christian nations are the Israel people, then we are saying that everything that Jesus said here prophesied, promised, and told to these disciples has not come to pass. In other words, it was all false, it was all futile, it was without power and without works.
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
He must have been talking about the ones who hated him and hated God who had actually put who to death? Israelites who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the God haters have killed millions of the followers of Christ all down through the last 1,900 years.
If it is true what Jesus said here, and that came to pass, then it would be the haters of God who killed what? Believing Israelite people. And yet we are told by the church that all the martyrs to Jesus in the last 1,900 years were non-Israelites. They were some sort of a “gentile” people. That is not what the scripture says at all.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
He’s talking to his Israelite disciples, “I will send the Holy Ghost to you, Israel people.”
29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
Does this sound like rejection from the Israel people? Hardly, and it makes one wonder how anyone can read this far in John and accept the falsehood that the Israelites rejected Christ when He came 1,900 years ago.
John 17, this is Jesus Christ, the son of man, praying to God the Father, prior to his death and resurrection, for his Israelite disciples. Consider that common teaching today, that these Israelites turned and went back to an anti-Christ religion, denies everything that God said in this prayer:
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
We discussed this reuniting of the Israel people, the sheep folds into one sheep fold.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The Israelites were to be sent into the world literally in place of Christ in the age to follow:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word.
Jesus was praying for the Israelites who would hear the Israelite disciples.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Jesus Christ ended this tremendous prayer that the spirit and the love that was in God Jesus would be in the Israel people, and that Jesus would be in them.
And foolish ministers tell our deceived people today that all of this was of no consequence, none of this came to pass, the Israelite people all turned away, and they don’t have the spirit of Christ in them anymore.
The Edomite Jews went ahead and crucified the Lord Jesus Christ. John 18:
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus. 11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
The reason why the Israelites did not fight to save Jesus’ life from the Edomite Jews was because Jesus ordered them not to. Who were the people in opposition? On one side were the Pharisees trying to put Jesus to death, the Israelites wanted to save him and he told them that this must come to pass.
Not only did the Israel people not crucify Christ, but neither did the Romans. It was not the Roman soldiers but actually the soldiers of the Edomite Jews who nailed Christ on the cross:
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Remember, the word “Jew” is from “Judean” [Greek: “Ioudaios“]. Pilate was a Roman.
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight…
All the way through the Old Testament, the Israel people are called God’s “servants”:
…that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
In other words, Jesus commanded Israel not to fight to save him because he had to be delivered to the Edomite Jews.
I want to show you how one of the greatest ways modern Israel is deceived by what they think is the Christian church. Many thousands of people in America and other Christian nations are starting to look at the Jew in America and Christendom and his unbelievable criminality, his filthy sexuality, and the anti-Christ mentality which they all show. And some of these people are beginning to wonder how in the world can those people be Christ’s chosen people? Everything they do and say and work for is anti-Christ and anti-Christian.
And so the enemies of true Israel came out with a new Bible, and they call it the Living Bible. They’ve actually rewritten God’s word to say that which they want it to say in order to deceive the Israelite people.
We have read in the King James Version in Ephesians 2 this part about the middle wall or partition, and we showed that this partition between cast off ten-tribed Israel and the remaining wife, Judah, so that that partition was broken down, and the Israel people were grafted back in to Judah, making them one. The two sheep folds were put back together.
I want to read some of these verses in the King James and then in this so-called “Living Bible”, which is endorsed and distributed by such men as Billy Graham.
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.
Notice in the King James that neither the word “Jew” nor the word “gentile” is in the verse 14, but look at what they have done with this in the Living Bible:
13 But now you belong to Christ Jesus and though you were once far away from God, now you have been brought very near to him because of what Jesus Christ has done for you with his blood. 14 For Christ himself is our way of peace. He has made peace with us Jews and you Gentiles by making us all one family, breaking down the wall of contempt that used to separate us.
Now that’s bad enough, this corruption called the “Living Bible” in these verses can only be inspired by Satan to imply that Jews and Christians are now one people.
Back to the King James:
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
Remember, cast-off, ten-tribed Israel under God’s law was divorced, and God had to die that she, Israel, might be made a widow. And this is made plain in the prophets. When Christ died on the cross, Israel was made a widow, therefore, she could remarry, and of course, she is and was to be remarried to the resurrected God, Jesus Christ. Same bride, same wife.
But listen to what the “Living Bible” does to these two verses:
15 By his death, he ended the angry resentment between us caused by the Jewish laws that favored the Jews and excluded the Gentiles for he died to annul that whole system of Jewish laws.
This is only half of the verse, and they’ve already annulled all of the laws of the Bible because most people think the laws of the Bible are Jewish laws. They go on:
Then he took the two groups that were opposed to each other and made them parts of himself. Thus he fused us together to become one new person. And at last there was peace. 16 As parts of the same body, our anger against each other has disappeared, for both of us has reconciled to God, and so the feud ended at last at the cross.
In other words, Billy Graham and the modern preachers who use the Living Bible are now teaching through this that the Jews and the Christian “Gentiles” have all been gathered into one people, and there is no more feud between them. They are one through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. That is blasphemy.
How in the world can the children of the devil be united with the children of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the children of God, through the work on the cross? Jesus Christ told the Jewish Pharisees, most of whom we have identified as Edomites, that they could not hear him, that they would not hear his words, that they were not of his sheep. He said, ‘Ye are not of God.” He said to them, ‘Ye are of your father, the devil.’
People do not realize what is being done with such a corruption and deception of this thing called the Living Bible. Billy Graham printed at one time 2 million copies, and he gives them away free from his crusade and over his television. And he has endorsed this whole-heartedly. It is the fastest selling book in America today, coming up to 10 million copies. Whole denominations are adopting this corruption called the Living Bible.
…The feud between Esau and Jacob has not ended. The Esau-Edomite Jews, or Red Jews, are still attempting to complete their age-long battle to kill Jacob-Israel. And they are successful in great part because these truths are hidden from our people even to the extent of rewriting God’s word to deceive us with something they call the “Living Bible”.
The doctrines taught in the so-called Christian churches today are the main force putting the American-Israel people to sleep so they do not see Esau-Edomite, the Canaanite Jews coming to destroy us.
If you talk to someone who has been raised in one of the Christian denominations and has spent 30 years going to the churches, you try to show him the truth that we are the Israel people, and the enemies of God, the Canaanite Jews are trying to destroy us, and they will not believe it.
They say, “Oh, no, the Jews are God’s chosen people. Christ is going to come and set them up in the kingdom over in Palestine.” The scripture is entirely turned around, upside down, and backwards. And by whom? By men coming in the name of Christ and claiming to preach God’s word.
Revelation 18, as we read of the destruction of Mystery Babylon:
23 …for thy merchants were the great men of the earth for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.”
The word “sorceries” is from the Greek word “Pharmakia” which means drugs. The false doctrines taught by the so-called denominational churches are drugs, opiates, which have drugged the minds of God’s Christian-Israel people so they cannot see the truth. They are deceived and put to sleep by the sorceries, the drugs, of Mystery Babylon.
In John 21, at the very end of this Gospel, after the resurrection, let’s see if Jesus changed his prophecies as to who it was who was to be taught his word:
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
In other words, you disciples feed my Israel people. And to whom did they go? They went to what we call the White race, the Anglo-Saxon Causasian people of the Mediterranean and Europe. Did they obey Jesus to feed the sheep of Israel? Obviously, they did.
…And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Over 1,900 years ago, the name of the Israel people, as they were converted to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, was changed from Judean or “Jew” to be called Christian. And they have been known by the name for over 1,900 years.
This fulfilled Moses’ prophecy in Numbers 6, quoted so often in churches, but they skip the last verse. To what people are these verses of scripture read more than any other people on the face of the earth? They are read to the Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Celtic, and kindred peoples. And these are the blessings that God was going to bless his Israel people:
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
They usually stop there, but the next verse says,
27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
Those verses alone should be enough to prove that the people of the world that are called the Christian peoples, the Christian nations, the Christian West, are the true children of Israel. We have had these things fulfilled in us. God’s name has been named on our nations.
Isaiah 62, 63, and 65 we are told that the name of the Israel people would be changed. In Chapter 65, God speaks to the enemies of Israel:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name.
The Israel people were to be called another name other than the name of Israel. They were not to be known as Israel, and it would be obvious that that name would have to be the name of God, for he also said ministers would name my name on the children of Israel. And what people are called after Jesus Christ? The Christian people.
Back to John 1. These are the verses used by the anti-Christ and the ungodly, the enemies in Israel, if you please, to read to our people and say, “The Jews are Israelites, but they rejected Christ 1,900 years ago“:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
In other words, when he came to his own, which would have to include all of the seed of Abraham, as portion of them did not receive him but as many as did, he gave them the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. That would mean the Christians today, and here is the division:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Who was born of the will of the flesh but Esau and his descendants? Esau deliberately left the house of his father to go and take Canaanite wives, and he married among the Canaanites, and his descendants were Edomites and Canaanites known today as “Jews”.
They were born of the “will of the flesh“. They have not been given the power to become the sons of God. But who was born of God? The descendants of Jacob-Israel. This is the story all the way through the Bible — that they would become the sons of God through the power of the blood of their messiah — and become the true Israel when they receive the adoption.
Today we are told the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches us, and it’s about time that someone spoke up and told these people that not only are the Jews — not the chosen people — but they are actually the descendants of Esau-Edom, the Canaanites, and they are the enemies of Jacob-Israel. And they are using their power over us, and their agents among us to corrupt us and destroy us if they can.
But Jesus Christ has died, has broken the power of Satan. He has given Israel that which he promised. And we only await our cleansing. May the God of Israel open the blinded eyes of his people to the truth that we may turn and join with our Israel brethren and follow Jesus Christ as he has said.
It seems to me that the reason the Chrisitan Bible is so difficult to interpret is because most of us do not understand the names, histories and relationships of all the people’s races and personalities, locations mentioned in the Bible. It must be a terrible thing to be a Jew and be defensive about your self and race. I was in a coffee shop and Bill O’Reillly was on the television program and a person sitting a ways from me said that he thought Bill OReilly was a great person and newsman. I said to him that ” Bill Oreilly is a Catholic and I was brought up A Catholic and I think Bill OReilly is an asshole, and I have no doubt that you are a Jew.” Immediately, he said: ” I guess your going to call me a Christ killer. ” I replied to him that ” I never even thought of such a thing. ” I have only been aware of actually working with only two Jews in my life that did the same work as I or worked along side me and there is something that one can sense about them even if you cannot tell what it is. There is a aura or field about them that gives off a sense that they are ifferent. There is a Bible history encyclopedia set of books that is available.
The ending was an incredible revelation to me, as not only does it debunk the one argument I keep running into and thrown up in defense of the Jew, but it literally debunks universal salivation of the cross.
“The will of man”- Abraham didnt wait for God to give Sarah a wife, they impatiently made a child with the serving girl, Ishmael, who was sent away.
“Will of the flesh” Esau followed the lusts of the flesh. Cannite, Hittite women were said to be “hauntingly beautiful….But then Lucifer is physically the most beautiful being God has ever created…Doesnt mean they are anything but rotted and evil on the inside.
This is about Gods will. And GOD put his name on Israel, and renamed them Christians. Men can SAY they are Christians, but if their ancestors were not called “Israel” by God it is not OF God but of the will of man.
Its astonishing to me that secrets are STILL unlocking in this divine and incredible book. Truly, there is NO BRILLIANT GLORY then that of its author GOD ALMIGHTY!
Thanks. That 3 part series was phenomenal and truly inspired by his hand!
I never looked at the New Living Bible, but I DID know they had “tweaked” certain phrases in the NIV and other “new improved” bibles, published by the same people who put forth porn and the Satanic bible….NOW people are saying “Bibles come from the same place porno does”….No, THOSE bibles do!
Paul clearly states he’s a Benjamite, therefore an Israelite, but not a Judahite. Not all Pharisees were Edomites, clearly–apparently the ones who rejected Christ and called for his murder were Edomites. That’s the point, no?
Please what proof do you offer as I cannot seem to find anything that allows you to make such an assertion. How do you know it was Edomites and not Judahite Pharisees that put Jesus to death.
Paul clearly states he’s a Benjamite, therefore an Israelite, but not a Judahite. Not all Pharisees were Edomites, clearly–apparently the ones who rejected Christ and called for his murder were Edomites. That’s the point, no?
Please elaborate as this is the scource of our problems.
He came to His own and His own did not receive Him. John 1:11. His own is his people. Not Edomites. His own did not receive Him. It is just plain reading and would be redundant statement if it ment false Edomite converts. They could not be His own.
Christians For Truth
Russ, this point has been address in this thread exhaustively. Clearly, there were Israelites who rejected Christ–no one disputes that, but what Emry demonstrates is that there is ample evidence that some of the Pharisees who rejected Christ were Edomites, who were not among the true children of Abraham. And Christ rebuked them for making that false claim. And Emry also demonstrated that while their were some of His own who rejected him, as many more received him. No need to belabor this point any further.
CFT I can see you have changed your mind regarding Pharisees being Edomites, I concur but I must ask when did this change of mind come?
The writings of Flavius Josephus.
Essenes – they were the only political group that was “Judahite by blood”.
While the Sadduccees had the highest proportion of Edomite conversos.
The Pharisees would fall somewhere in the middle.
Numerically not much more or less Jewish than the Republican Party, I guess.
However, we all know (((who))) controls the party, regardless of their strength in numbers.
All dispensationalism is dependent on the incorrect meaning of “Gentiles”, a Latin term that Jerome first used in the Latin Vulgate in the 4th Century instead of the “ethnos”. But when he first used it, “Gentile” meant “of the same clan or race”. And that means, Jerome must have known that the “Gentiles” and the Judean Israelites were of the same race.
BUT sometime around the 15th Century, the definition of “Gentile” was changed to mean “non-Jew”, and that inaccurate definition has been a stumbling block for all Christians for the last 500 years. And given that the 15th century was the height of Jewish infiltration and power in the Catholic Church, it is reasonable to assume that a crypto-Jew was responsible for changing the official definition of “Gentile” which sowed so much confusion.
And no dispensational Christian will every admit to this historical truth about the word “Gentile”. Ever.
The following quote succinctly explains why dispensationalists have been misled:
“The Christian cannot read his Bible except through Jewish spectacles, and, therefore, reads it wrong.”
—Henry Ford, “The International Jew,” Vol. IV, p. 238
Ezekiel said that after the Return there would be no more two nations, neither two kingdoms, but one —Ezek. 37:2122.
“And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.” It is here plainly declared that when God brought the children of Israel back “into their own land” from the heathen nations whither they be gone,” he made them “one nation” in the land of Israel, with “one king” (God), and they were “no more two nations” nor “divided into two kingdoms any more at all.”
So that happened thousands of year ago.
This is why Jesus refers to Israelite living in Judea as the lost sheep. See you made no accounting for the return as was granted to all Israel by Cyrus.
What part of the British people are Israel? How are you going to tell? DNA? Supposition? Geneology? What evidence is it you are going to use if the modern Jews cannot make this claim as all evidence has been destroyed. Its a shame you are being duped but you will see eventually.
Interesting how Paul refers to some friends who are, in fact, in Britain….his “brothers” or brethren, his kinsmen, those counted among dispersed Israel, the lost sheep, yes….
2 Timothy 4:21
“Do thy diligence to come before winter. Eubulus greeteth thee, and Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren.”
How can that be?
Russ – Reread Ezekiel 37, it obviously was not fulfilled by the Jews in Palestine in 33 AD. It was *potentially* fulfilled, but fell short because the Jews rejected Christ. Those Jews that did receive Christ left Judaism and joined with the Gentile Church. So the “Israel of God” is formed by Christianity. So the “Israel” part of the two families must be those outside of Judaism, which is the Gentiles, the very people into whom the old Ephraim/Israelite tribes had merged and were assimilated. Thus the prophecy was fulfilled in a clever way. By getting lost into the Gentiles, and seeming to die out genetically, the tribes of Ephraim ended up saving the Gentiles. So like their forefather Joseph, they seemed to disappear into Egypt (lost into the world by the Assyrian captivity), but they later turn up later as the saviours of Egypt (the called out assembly of Gentile Christians that form the Church).
So these “Christian Identity” people have a valid point, they are just over-doing it. They think European Christians aren’t from Japheth but are instead the full-blooded descendants of ancient Semetic Hebrews. This is, of course, unscientific, and has been disproved by genetic research that the early promoters of British Israelitism didn’t have access to. But once you back off from this far-fetched error, and re-frame the perspective to see the 10 tribes as only assimilated into the larger body of Europe, then the true story emerges: That Japheth got his promise of enlargement and to dwell in the tents of Shem by his absorption and swallowing up of the ancient Israelites into his ranks. So the 10 tribes went to Assyria, then mingled with the Indo-European Sythians and Cimmarians, then those nomadic peoples entered into Europe, and further mingled with the European races, until complete absorption happened and they were thoroughly paganized. But later their mingled descendants were re-incorporated into the true Israel of God by their acceptance of Christianity and receipt of the new birth in Christ. And those White Christians of true Israel preach the gospel to the rest of the world, inviting them to the new birth as well.
>” And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.” Isaiah 49:6
So the ancient assimilation hides the identity of Israel’s remote descendants, making two contradictory things true at the same time: Christians are comprised of Gentiles, Christians are the re-gathered Israel. And, Christians also include those Jews that receive Christ.
Norwale, it’s you who is overstating your case vis a vis the Japhethites. There were Japhethites in Europe long before the Israelites showed up–nobody who knows ancient European history would dispute that. But when those later migrations of Israelites appeared, it fulfilled the prophecy that Japheth would dwell in the tents of Shem–and literally be absorbed into those Israelite tribes.
There are literally hundreds of proofs that people of White European descent are Israelites (with Japhethite ancestry). Take the time to watch this video and consider the proof–what other people could possibly fulfill all of these proofs? Nobody, including Japhethites:
European Heraldry and the symbols of the 12 Tribes of Israel:
Who are the Tribe of Dan today?
The Top 5 Most Mistranslated Verses In The Bible
We are close to agreeing if all you dispute is whether Japheth was absorbed into Israelites, or the reverse. Yet the Bible agrees with my view:
>” Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.” Hosea 8:8.
The few are swallowed by the many. The few are scattered among the many:
>” Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.” Jeremiah 31:10
The theory of a swallowed-Israel, or scattered-Israel, or assimilated-Israel doesn’t need genetic proof or artifacts proving cultural continuity over the centuries, but your pure-Israel theory requires both.
You lose nothing by changing your position since the claim to the spiritual blessing and birthright that belongs to Israel/Ephraim must belong to whoever their surviving heirs are, no matter how remote and widely assimilated throughout Japheth they may have become. Yet by switching you gain the credibility of not pushing something far-fetched genetically and archeologically. The best you can produce only shows a few coincidental threads of connection to ancient Israel, which is more consistent with the assimilated-Israel theory than with a pure-Israel one.
And with the assimilated-Israel theory there is no need to twist NT into passages that call Gentile Christians, “aliens from the commonwealth of Israel” because Japheth was just that. You also move away from all that gnostic-inspired racial predestination nonsense. If racial “Israelites” were such a big deal, they would have remained faithful to God in 800 BC before any of this happened. They didn’t and everybody needs to move forward to the new and different way God saves people in the Church age by the preaching of Christianity.
That’s a mistranslation you refer to: it should be “alienated from the commonwealth” not “aliens”. Look it up. That’s a go-to verse for all universalists, and I have yet encounter a universalist who actually checked any translation for accuracy for the reason that universalism is based on mistranslations.
That said, “swallowed up” does NOT imply genetically absorbed into. It’s an apt metaphor for the dispersion, and it’s a reference to Jonah and the whale, no doubt. Did Jonah stop being an Israelite because he was swallowed by the whale? Of course not. Did Israelites stop being Israelites when they were forced to live among racial aliens? No, not unless they succumbed to race mixing.
God promised dispersed Israel that although he was divorcing them, He would never leave them, and He could regather them. If they were absorbed by Japheth, that would make God a liar and His promises to none effect. Christ said, “I come only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” If dispersed Israel were truly lost and absorbed into other races, then that would make Christ a liar and his intent futile, which is absurd.
And no, just because the Israelites were pure racially does NOT mean they were pure morally. That’s the whole point. Adam and Eve were both racially pure and capable of sin. David was a great sinner. Was he a racial bastard? The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Scythians all valued racial purity. Many ancient White cultures have. It’s part of who we are–we are not Jews who hate racial purity because they are racial bastards and want us to think that racial purity is worthless and meaningless. And Christians who don’t believe in racial purity have been clearly Judaized.
Did you even bother to watch those videos I posted, especially the 100 Proof that Israelites were White? Watch it.
I see your point. You make a valid one. I also see CI’s point, and they make a valid one.
Lets again go back to the scriptures though. In Revelation, the 144,000 are specifically from the Israelite tribes (excluding Dan). This means that, in the latter days, there will literally be a remnant of Isrealite (by birth) saints (by repentance).
In Ezekiel, with the regathering of Israel, the Word makes a discrepancy between Nations and Israel, meaning they arent (the nations and israel) one by birth (but, of course, are one in Christ). I believe the fulfillment of Japheth dwelling in the tents of Shem is fulfilled by Christ (at least in part). Christ is the house of God, descended from Judah/Israel. When we repent and follow Him we comprise His body. This salvation is open to all Adamic nations hence Japheth as well. Its interesting though that Ham didnt receive any sort of blessing. Wonder why.
” Christ said, “I come only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” If dispersed Israel were truly lost and absorbed into other races, then that would make Christ a liar and his intent futile, which is absurd.”
Eh, not entirely true. While Christ was alive in the flesh on this earth, He came for only the lost tribes of the House of Israel. HOWEVER, after Christ left this earth and sat down at the right hand of God, he made clean the other nations and sent some of his Apostles to them to preach the good news.
One of the first prophecies given to Israel during Moses’s time talked about Israelite defection and God making them jealous by foolish nations. Duet 32:
“Then He said, ‘I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end shall be;
For they are a perverse generation,
Sons in whom is no faithfulness.
‘They have made Me jealous with what is not God;
They have provoked Me to anger with their [e]idols.
So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation,”
Then Paul adds context to this in Romans 11:
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but [e]those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written,
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes to see not and ears to hear not,
Down to this very day.”
9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
And a stumbling block and a retribution to them.
“Let their eyes be darkened to see not,
And bend their backs forever.”
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their [f]fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my [g]fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [h]rich root of the olive tree,
The above verse also proves that Paul’s ministry was not to Israelites, but rather to the other adamic Nations.
John, Christ’s ministry was to both the Israelite people and the larger White Adamic Genesis 10 nations, as has been stipulated in this thread already. But that does NOT include non-Whites, non-Adamics, if that’s what you are trying to squeeze in here.
Excuse me Westwins. But who then are the Zionist Jews and their movement? Is a Zionist Jew another name for Edomite? And why my question.
Edom means red, Eretz means red, the name Rothchild means red shield, Rothchild when I understand correctly is a Zionist Jew. The Salvation Army, founded by William Booth a 33rd-degree Freemason, has a red shield. The power behind Freemasonry is the Illuminati.
Is there a connection?
@ John 3
You think you are smarter than the Authorized Version so you change its words and rely instead on myths and legends. You are free to believe whatever you want, but you can’t call yourself a Bible-believer, because we don’t do this. We learn from what the Bible actually says, we don’t change it to fit our agenda.
Regardless, I’ll explain to you that your misunderstanding of Israel apparently starts with Adam. He was created in Gen 2:7-8 for the domain of the garden. In Genesis 1:26 other pure human races of men were created for 5 other dominions, shown in the added brackets:
>” And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them [plural] have dominion  over the fish of the sea, and  over the fowl of the air, and  over the cattle, and  over all the earth, and  over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Genesis 1:26.
That’s a total of 6 blessed human races (Gen 1:28), and each one was headed up a son of God, for a total of 6 sons of God, one of which was Adam (Luke 3:38). [These sons of God later cause the problems described in Genesis 6:2 fathering giants as offspring because when they took each other’s daughters they were doing an initial hybridization between human races and this spawns more diversity in the first generation than later ones after the genetics are mixed and thereby regress to a mean.] These were all perfectly human men – there was nothing diabolical about them, although their natures would have been more fierce in order to take dominion of the world, while Adam’s nature more soft because he only needed to tend a garden. The son of God with dominion over the creeping things, like snakes, gave himself to serve the devil and creeped into Adam’s garden as the “serpent,” speaking what the devil inspired him to say, and who fathered Cain (2 Tim. 3:6; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Jn 3:12). There was nothing intrinsically satanic about Cain’s line, except a high IQ and industry that made created civilization more his concern that spiritual things. With Noah we have the destruction of all these male lines so that only Adam’s line survives – yet the those races survive by their wives. So we drop from 6 races to only 3 after the flood. All are sons of Noah, all are Adamic. Japheth and Shem are blessed while Ham is cursed to servitude. Ham is goes first to establish the first civilizations (showing his mother and wife are from Cain) in ancient Babylon and Egypt (Gen 10:10; Ps 105:23). Shem’s line goes next to bring religion to the world with Abram and the promises to his family. But Japheth’s line gets political dominion last, starting with Assyria then Medes/Persians, Greece, and Rome. So the story of the sons of Jacob is in the context of something much bigger: the emergence of a 7th race of men, starting with the 7th “only begotten” Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. As the races before the flood were destroyed, so the current races are going to be destroyed, except they enter the new birth by Jesus Christ. And as all those pre-flood races lived by their women, so all of the races of mankind live by becoming members of the bride of Christ, the Church. We, like women who have a baby, birth our new bodies when Christ returns. Our old body is the “egg” and the “seed” is the word of God we received when we believed on Christ. So only the new race matters, when we become sons of God by supernatural birth. Jesus Christ after the flesh is “Israel” and David’s seed by his mother Mary, and therefore he inherits all the dominions of mankind through her. Through God the Father he is heir to all the universe, and we co-heirs with him.
>” And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” Colossians 3:10-11.
>” Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” 1 John 3:2
>” And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” Romans 8:17.
I hope this clears up a lot your confusion.
Christians For Truth
Norwale, you are seriously beyond help if you think the King James Version is infallible. You will never understand the Bible if you insist that translation is 100% accurate and reliable. We recommend that others here not waste their time engaging in discussing this issue with you because of your slavish adherence to one single, and notoriously flawed translation. Don’t waste anymore time here–go to a website that welcomes your narrow point of view.
@Christians For Truth
If those are the rules, then I guess I have to go.
Christians For Truth
It’s you, Norwale, who has made it impossible for the rest of us to have an honest discussion about the Bible because of your irrational insistence that we all accept the King James Bible as THE unassailable authoritative word of God. That we cannot and will not agree to. That’s on you, not us.
God authorized only the King James translation. All other translations are the work of the devil. God did not authorize the Bible to be translated into any other language except English. God did not authorize the early Greek and Latin translations. God decided that his word is best understood in Elizabethan English. And if you don’t speak English, clearly you were never meant to be a Christian. SMH
Norwale, it is great you feel this way but I cannot. John the baptist said the kingdom of heaven was at hand. Jesus said not may of you will taste death till you see the kingdom come with power. It came in that generation at Pentecost. Jesus articulates the kingdom is not of this world or my disciples would fight. During the time of the Roman empire a kingdom had to be established otherwise the prophets the Christ were dupes or cheating us. It further say that kingdom will not be overcome. You see Norwale the time limitation on the prophecy is not a partial this and that but specific to the events of the anointed Messiah. As to wondering Jews or Israelite both Peter and Moses are explicit. 22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you. 23 Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people. 24Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days.…
They have been completely cut off as they would not obey the Christ.
Paul clearly states he’s a Benjamite, therefore an Israelite, but not a Judahite. Not all Pharisees were Edomites, clearly–apparently the ones who rejected Christ and called for his murder were Edomites. That’s the point, no?
It is clear the Edomites never invented the Rabbinate nor Talmud. Nor did they kill the prophets and the Christ. Jesus lays the blame on the Israelite portion. It is a tremendous error to try to scapegoat the Edomites who were forcefully converted. Clearly Jesus is focusing on another people called Jews and sometimes Israel. Read carefully the Matthew 21 verse of the parable of the tennants cannot be applied to the Edomites as they were not a nation anymore nor did they loose their kingdom. Jesus is clearly talking to the Jews (Judahites). Acts 2- lays the charge at the door of the men of Israel. Edom is a scape goat for people who reject the fact that Israel broke covenant with God and killed the prophets and the Christ. All have sinned includes Israelites, Edomites and all mankind.
Isreal made its own bed sure. But the Edomites are trying to kill us out of envy for a destiny that was never theirs. They should be hated and rightfully so.
The resistance that the majority of White people, whether Christian or not, have today to the fact that they are the living descendants of the ancient Israelites is exactly the same resistance that Paul and the other disciples experienced 2,000 years ago trying to convince the Corinthians, Colossians, Philippians, Romans, Galatians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians that they were the lost Israelites and Adamites of the dispersion. Perhaps, they just don’t want the responsibility that comes with it.
Wonderful thought but where is your proof?
Read the Epistles of Paul in their totality for starters.
It’s true that tbe remaining Edomites merged with the Jews in Palestine under John Hyrcannus about 100 years before Christ. Also true that the northern tribes of Israel were taken to Assyria and they assimilated with nomadic tribes who went into Europe. But Sheldon Emry uses circular reasoning to equate saved Christians with “genetic Israel”. He says “this verse ABC about saved people MUST mean those Israelites because only Israelites are God’s people, therefore only Israelites are saved people … blah blah blah.” He tries to combine gnostic predestination with the Old Testament chosen race, ignoring that the entirety of that is fulfilled in Christ who is everything. The old testament system is like the shell of seed, and Christ is the plant, and we who trust Christ are made new creatures in Christ, not in the dead husk that is rotting away because it is no longer important. Sheldon is assuming a system and then forcing it onto the Bible. Scriptures are very clear: salvation is open to all by believing on Christ, people are not included or excluded because of their parents’ genetics:
>” The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
>” The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Ezekiel 18:20
Many White people who this guy thinks are “Israel” are actually atheists, faggots, communists, etc., just as bad and without Christ as any godless Jew. And it’s also true that there are a number of good Christians who are ethnic Jews.
The Christians are the “Israel of God” because we are spiritually made that. The name “Israel” wasn’t Jacob natural name – it was given to him by the angel. “Abraham” wasn’t Abram’s natural name – it was given to him by God. This proves that the real children of Abraham and Israel are children of God, of faith, of Christ, of spiritual new birth.
It’s also true that God has plans for races, and Noah’s son Japheth is the one that got the blessing of enlargement. So Europe was enlarged in Christ and moved into the tents of Shem by adopting Christianity. But Christianity isn’t exclusive to us, nor are we all saved, unfortunately.
Mixed race racial “bastards” are never considered legitimate “children of the promise”. (Deuteronomy 23:2). They are branches that can bear no fruit. Why do you think Rebecca was so distraught when her son Esau took wives of strange flesh–from the Canaanites? Why did she insist that Jacob find appropriate wives among her family’s people? Her life would be over, her bloodline destroyed, if Jacob followed Esau’s example.
Im still reading, but your references to Eph 2 dont seem to support your notion that Paul’s letter was addressing Israelites and not other non-israel Adamites alive at that time. You say that Eph 2 is Christ bringing Israel and Judah together again, into one fold. But, what i read in Eph 2 doesnt really support this.
In the KJV in verse 11-12, it says:
“11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
This implies that the people being addressed are not apart of Israel AT ALL. If the purpose of the message was Paul addressing Israel to tell then that they are being reconciled to Judah again, to become one sheep again, why not say it? Paul is saying these people are strangers to promise. Israel is not a stranger to the promise, they are the nation which the promise was first given. Why call those of the promise strangers to the promise who are without God? Why not say something like “you who the promise was given, repent and come back to your Shepherd.”?
Whats funny is that you contrast the Living Word translation to the KJV to prove your point, but instead the Living Word translation is a stronger supporter of your argument than the KJV is.
in verse 14 of the Living Word:
“14 For Christ himself is our way of peace. He has made peace with us Jews and you Gentiles by making us all one family, breaking down the wall of contempt that used to separate us.”
This could be interpreted as Judah and Lost Israel being reconciled. But, in the KJV, the writing reads more like Adamkind being reconciled with Israel as a whole (including Judah/Benjmain).
Then, later you said that Israel is remarried to Christ already:
“When Christ died on the cross, Israel was made a widow, therefore, she could remarry, and of course, she is and was to be remarried to the resurrected God, Jesus Christ. Same bride, same wife.”
This hasnt happened yet. The wedding feast has not taken place yet. The bride (repentant adamkind) is still being created. When Paul says “not all Israel is Israel”, he isnt talking about jews masquerading as Judah/Israel, he is talking about being born a genetic Israelite doesnt mean youre a part of the bride which is to marry Christ by default. You must repent first. If you dont repent, you may have a part in the second death.
Because of this, the notions that Israelites can only be considered born of God and only Edomites can be considered born of the flesh is a fallacy. #1) there existed many more adamites at the time of Christ than just Israel and Edom. #2) If Israelites come out of the womb born of God already, then what is the purpose of Christ of an repentance? What about Christ’s words of : “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”.. If we are already born of God and have His spirit in us, then there is no need for repentance because we already have God without Christ.
Like all universalists, you rely heavily on the mistranslations without bother checking the Greek. It should NOT be “aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,” but rather “alienated from the citizenship of Israel, which describes EXACTLY what the lost sheep of the northern Ten Tribes were at this point. Check the Greek here:
No one said only Edomites were “born of the flesh”; ALL non-Adamites, non-Israelites were “born of the flesh”. Paul said, “All of Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26), which is a confirmation of Isaiah’s prophecy in 45:17. Notice there are no stipulations. No “ifs” “ands” or “buts”. ALL of Israel will be saved — Judean AND the lost tribes of the dispersion. Because they were chosen from the foundation of the world.
Im certainly not a universalist. I also do check up on the Greek and Hebrew, although im not a certified scholar of the original languages.
You still havent addressed Paul’s tone which was that he wasnt speaking to Israelites. Even if you feel like it should be translated to “alienated from the citizenship of Israel” (which could refer to any nation excluded from the original covenant), how can you explain away his next point which was “and strangers from the covenants of promise”. How could someone of the promise be a stranger to the promise?
Why is it that the smartest man of that time, Paul, opted to not speak plainly to the supposed Israelite crowd he was talking to? Unless, of course he was not speaking to Israelites (like he said).
And yes, the article did, by implication, state that Edomites were the only ones born of the will of the flesh “Who was born of the will of the flesh but Esau and his descendants?”.
The ten northern tribes were not only divorced from God, over the many centuries, about 700 years, and the Assyrian captivity, they lost their identity as Israelites, as it was prophecied that they would, and that is exactly why they were “strangers (or estranged) from the covenants of the promise”.
Think about it this way: there are White people in America today who already do not know the ethnicity of their European ancestors from only 3 or 4 previous generations. They’ve forgotten that they are Irish, English, German or Polish. The exact same thing happened to the Israelites.
And the original article, I believe, was making the point that all of the Pharisees who were not Israelites were Edomites–he was proving that these Pharisees pretending to be Israelites were descendants of Esau and thus “born of the will of the flesh.”
I know the 10 northern tribes were dispersed and placed into captivity. The other 2 tribes were dispersed and placed into captivity as well, although some of them came back to build the second temple.
I understand your point, stating that dispersed tribes could be considered estranged, like some of our people today dont know they came from Europe.
However, as this site has pointed out many times, there exists european nations that were conceived prior to Christ claimed that they were descendants of Israel… That doesnt sound “estranged” to me, they seemed to be perfectly aware of their lineage. Israelites never had a problem remembering their lineage, but always had a problem remembering God and His laws. Everyone who was a non-Israelite from Moses onward would be “strangers” and “aliens” to the promises and covenant. At best, Paul would have been talking to all adamkind whom was outside of Judea which would include dispersed Israel and Japhethites and Hamites as they all would have been strangers or aliens (and all white).
So Paul was a Pharisee does this mean you think he was an Edomite.
Pharisee sect came out of the Babylonian captivity and the Edomites were not there. So just because you are a Pharisee it does not mean you are an Edomite. You seem too need to call modern Judaism Edomites. Modern Judaism is the result of the survival of the Pharisee sect. Paul was no Edomite and so you will need to explain this further or drop the whole idea.
Paul clearly states he’s a Benjamite, therefore an Israelite, but not a Judahite. Not all Pharisees were Edomites, clearly. That’s the point, no?
Paul says to the Judean Christians in Acts 2, ‘…you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.’ In response they ‘were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”’
In the parable of the evil husbandmen, Christ predicts His death and accuses Israel of murdering Him, just as Israel murdered the prophets before Him. If Edom murdered Him, then the parable doesn’t make sense, because then they are different husbandmen. At some point the vineyard changed ownership, which isn’t in the parable. They are the same owners.
In Deuteronomy 32 Moses says, ‘So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation’. This is given to all Israel, even in the wilderness, where it was predicted that other nations were gathered into the promise.
This whole theology of Edom/Esau being the cause for Israel’s problems and the murder of Christ is a stumbling block. Theologically it is a constant uphill battle to try to convince readers of Scripture that the writers constantly mean something other than what they plainly wrote.
It says in Genesis 22, ‘In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed’, and Paul says in Galatians 3, ‘Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.’ It says ALL THE NATIONS would be blessed by that Seed, but it does not include ALL THE BEASTS. Stop worrying about beasts and excluding them from the covenants of Scripture.
It is time for Israel to cast off their old stubbornness and scapegoats, and to turn to their God and Christ that they may be healed. It is time to remove ‘pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness’. We are promised that if we turn to Him, He will save us. Then is He late? On the contrary, He says in Luke 18, ‘I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly.’ Israel has failed to turn to Him in Spirit. The time is coming, as it says in Hosea 11,
‘He will roar like a lion;
Indeed He will roar
And His sons will come trembling from the west.
They will come trembling like birds from Egypt
And like doves from the land of Assyria;
And I will settle them in their houses, declares the Lord.’
Paul says in Romans 11, ‘I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the nations, to make them jealous. Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the nations, how much more will their fulfillment be!’
Now the time of the nations is reaching fulfillment, where it says in Luke 21, ‘ and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the nations until the times of the nations are fulfilled.’
But the fulfillment of Israel is coming close, as it says in Isaiah 49,
‘Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,
To the despised One,
To the One abhorred by the nation,
To the Servant of rulers,
“Kings will see and arise,
Princes will also bow down,
Because of the Lord who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You.”’
And in Revelation 7,
‘For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”’
Turn aside from denying our culpability in Christ’s death. Turn aside from blame and complaining over the jews and beasts who devour us, and the nations who trample us, that the remnant may come about and hasten the day of Christ’s coming.
‘For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And will render vengeance on His adversaries,
And will atone for His land and His people.’
Yes, Johan, it is clear that “his own received him not,” implying that there were Israelites who indeed rejected Christ and who called for his death. In that sense, Emry is over-stating his case. And yes, we see this scapegoating in many White identity groups–looking for the Jew in every proverbial woodpile.
The OT makes it abundantly clear that Israel was capable of venal sin on their own, which is why God divorced Israel–God didn’t say, “Oh, well, the Edomites-Canaanites made you sin, so I’m not going to divorce you.”
That said, the essential point that Emry is making is to refute the idea that God changed his covenant with Israel because Israel rejected Christ, and that the new covenant would be with non-Israelites. The quibbling over whether or not all the people who rejected Christ were Israelites or not is a distraction from his main thesis, which is the lie of dispensationalism, no?
If Emry wants to refute the idea that the new covenant would be with non-Israelites, then I’m afraid I disagree. The new covenant is with both Israel and the nations.
Israel is inscribed on the palms of His hands, and the remnant of Israel will be purchased from the land as the first fruits, but the nations will be included as well.
We cannot understand prophecy without understanding the players, and if the players are confused, then there is confusion. Where there is confusion instead of prophecy, there is no testimony of Christ, “for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”.
Agreed, however, Christ came first for Israel, and I have to wonder if that meant strictly the Israelite Judeans or even just the Judahites. But then Paul was Benjamite, not a Judahite, and Christ converted him after his crucifixion. But then again, Christ seemed to convert the Israelite Samaritan woman at the well prior to the commission of the apostles to take the ministry to the “nations” after his crucifixion.
When Christ said he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, that must mean that those are for whom he immediately came during his lifetime, because clearly, as you say, Paul alludes to the Genesis 10 nations too that would receive the blessings.
It was necessary for Him to come to His own so that they would reject Him and fulfill the prophecy of the cornerstone being rejected.
It was necessary for them to reject Him so that He could be slain in innocence. It was necessary for Him to be slain in innocence so that He could pay the atonement and enter the Holy of Holies once and for all.
It was necessary for Him to be slain so that He could be lifted on high and raised again and be the firstborn of the dead, that all may look on Him and have faith and live like He did. That Abraham could be a father of many nations, even all who believe in faith.
It was necessary for Him to die, that Israel could die with Him and be loosed from the covenant of the law, being wed to Him who rose again. (See Romans 7, God did not die to be wed to Israel again, but His Son died that Israel and all who believe may bare fruit)
Not that the law is of none effect, but remains for sinners so that they may know sin. The law says do not lie with a beast and such a one is worthy of death. But the nations and Israel underwent a much more severe heresy of Peor, that it may be fulfilled, “I will let loose among you the beasts of the field, which will bereave you of your children and destroy your cattle and reduce your number so that your roads lie deserted”.
But if Christ didn’t die to release Israel from the marriage contract with God, so that she could remarry, then why is Christ referred to as the bridegroom, and why do his Israelite children anticipate the wedding feast of the Lamb?
The idea that Israel was married to the Father is not in Scripture I believe. I tell you a mystery that Christ may be glorified in accordance with the Spirit.
Hebrews 2:2 says, “For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable” and Stephen said in Acts 7:53, “you who received the law as ordained by angels”.
Christ says in John 12:48, “the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day”, but He says in John 5:45, “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses”. Is it then His word, or Moses?
Where then did Moses receive these “living oracles”? Stephen says in Acts 7:38, “the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai”.
John 1:10 says, “the world was made through Him”.
Colossians 1:16 says, “For by Him all things were created”.
1 Corinthians 8:6 says, “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”
Hebrews 1:2 says, “in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.”
Isaiah 54:5 says, “For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the Lord of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.”
The Prince of Hosts (Daniel 8:11, Joshua 5), Prince of Princes (Daniel 8:25), King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev 19:16) has been baring the burden of Israel for a long time, for it says in Psalm 68:19, “Blessed be the Lord, who daily bears our burden, The God who is our salvation” Also Matthew 23:37, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”
We should hasten that His long anticipated wedding may be accomplished and that His burden may end, and that we may serve the Father with our exalted Groom, the Son of Righteousness and Glory…
For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
“I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me”?
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”
And of the angels He says,
“Who makes His angels winds,
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
But of the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
“You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of Your hands;
They will perish, but You remain;
And they all will become old like a garment,
And like a mantle You will roll them up;
Like a garment they will also be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not come to an end.”
“ALL non-Adamites, non-Israelites were “born of the flesh””
So, which is it. Are all non-adamites born of the will of the flesh? or are all non-Israelites born of the will of the flesh. There are many whites (adamites) around during Christ’s time which were not Israelites. If the answer is non-admamites were born of the will of the flesh, than that can only mean beasts. In which case all adamites are born of God (which would include Esau, it would include Canaan). Or are all non-Israelites born of the will of the flesh which would include Ruth, Christ’s great, great, great, great, ……. great grandmother.
Or, is it like the scriptures state which is that all adamic flesh is of the earth. Its dust. There is no special quality to the flesh. The spirit is what comes from above. We can only be born of the Holy Spirit once we repent and receive Christ into our hearts just like is preached continuously in the bible.
ganymede writes, “Paul said, “All of Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26)”
No, Read it exactly: “…blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved…” Romans 11:25-26.
Paul is saying that when the full number of Gentiles have come into the Church, that will complete the Christian church, i.e., at that poiont all the “Israel of God” will have come in. He isn’t saying all those of the flesh of Israel ever get saved, but the opposite, because while he is calling the Roman Christians “Gentiles” he is simultaenously saying that “blindness” is upon the natural people of Israel who are not getting saved.
Paul’s point is that at the very end, the natural Israelite-Jews MIGHT possibly also trust Christ. But either way, he says “SO” – meaning once all the Gentiles come in, that’s that same thing as all Israel getting saved.
>”” For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. … But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.” Philippians 3:3,7
And Paul says, ‘do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you… that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations has come in’.
The hardening will pass and those who trample down Israel will be brought to account for their evil. As He says in Zechariah 1, ‘But I am very angry with the nations who are at ease; for while I was only a little angry, they furthered the disaster.” Therefore thus says the Lord, “I will return to Jerusalem with compassion; My house will be built in it,” declares the Lord of hosts, “and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem.”’
That measuring line will come over His remnant, as Isaiah said in Isaiah 10, ‘A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God.
For though your people, O Israel, may be like the sand of the sea,
Only a remnant within them will return;’
Then it says in Revelation 11, ‘Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.’ The remnant will be spared that 42 months, but then ‘the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came’. Isaiah concludes his thought in Isaiah 10, ‘A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness. For a complete destruction, one that is decreed, the Lord God of hosts will execute in the midst of the whole land.’
“…blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved…” Romans 11:25-26.
This verse proves that for “all of israel to be saved”, the lost sheep, dispersed ten tribe Israel, known as “the nations” must be reunited with the Israelite Judeans under their shepherd, their messiah, Christ. This is prima facie evidence that the true meaning of “gentiles” is dispersed Israelites. “Gentiles” must be Israelites for this coming together to be accomplished. Thanks for disproving your universalism for me.
The ten tribes are of “the nations”, but they are not the whole of the nations, which are in Genesis 10. Paul says, ‘I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites’.
Why would he have consternation over his kinsmen according to the flesh who were falling away if they were all to be saved? But ‘it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel’. If Esau, a child of Abraham by flesh and first born, by his unrighteousness, was not an inheritor of the covenant of Abraham, then how much less the Israelites and children of flesh who transgress?
Israel are ‘beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable’, but they must still take hold of the covenant of Abraham by faith, as must the nations. Paul says, ‘For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”)’
It is not only those of the law, but also those of faith, as through Christ he is a father of many nations. Paul also says, ‘He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.’ Christ is the seed in whom the promise was made and through whom the covenant of Abraham is fulfilled. He had to be raised up so that all could look on him, believe and be saved. Again, the specific promises to Israel in the wilderness still stand, but the nations are children of Abraham by faith.
It is not those who are of Abraham’s faith as some say, that Abraham only had faith in his own physical seed, because then the recipient of the covenant needs no faith! But Abraham needed faith to sojourn in a foreign land, and to lay his son on the altar, and so do all who hope to be inheritors of the covenant.
Moses said to all Israel, ‘I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation, By a nation without understanding will I anger you.’ If this was given to all Israel, then who is the nation?
Isaiah referred to Deuteronomy 23 when he said in chapter 56, ‘To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths… To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial… Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord… Even those I will bring to My holy mountain’. Deuteronomy 23 regulated other nations, not Israel (I do not say this refers to mamzers).
When Christ spoke of the mercy towards a Sidonian and an Assyrian in Luke 4, they tried to throw Him down a cliff. Let us not make that same mistake.
They are also the proselytized Ashkenazi )ews who are ten times more wicked than the Edomite )ews
Encyclopedia Judaica and Bible commentaries are clear at times in ancient Israel proselytes were taken in. Upon return from Babylon the perhaps because idolatry took them too Babylon. Ezra and Nehemiah were strict in this regard. It is an easy subject to research and begs the question why would a racial Israel be allowed to do proselytize?
The ritual law was not replace but rather the whole law. Otherwise I may ask when last have you stoned a fellow white for not keeping the Sabbath? Did’nt think so!
It is also clear in Malachi that non-Israelite converts were not acceptable to God. They try to rationalize their conversion by claiming that Esau was Jacob’s brother. They are rebuked for this false reasoning, which you and the Jewish Encylopedias and in their false teachings ignore.
There is one Law in the land for you as well as the sojourner that lives amongest you. Even slaves were circumcised. What does it mean to be under the Law? If Josephus was right they were converted by force. When a Protestant coverts to Popery, we call him a Catholic. Edomites were forced to convert. No where does it say they were Pharisees only. Modern Jews are not unnecessarily Edomites. You need to develop this idea with proof so that we can comprehend with facts. As we have so seen lost sheep were in the Geography of Israel at that time as Jesus was only sent unto them. In Acts Jesus expands the mission to the Samaritans which means that the Great commission included more than the lost sheep. If Samaritans were seen as the enemy and as unclean and they were also mixed race, how is it they were encouraged to believe on Christ as saviour of the whole world.
Stop lying, Russ, you were shown that the Samaritans were Israelites when the woman at the well claimed Jacob was her father and Christ did not correct her, yet you insist she wasn’t because it doesn’t fit your universalistic false doctrine. Stop it.
Samaritans were half breeds and could say that Jacob was their father. However, the religion they held was not the Judaism of the Bible and so they were rejected by Israel as being non-Israeli.
That’s absurd. There is ZERO scriptural evidence that the woman at the well was a “half breed”. Why are you writing your own Bible? Christ rebuked some of the Pharisees who made the claim that Abraham was their father–because they were indeed racially mixed Edomites. But he didn’t rebuke the woman at the well for claiming Jacob as her father. Compare how he treats this woman with the “Canaanite” woman in Matthew 15.
Chesterton we both know it is difficult for my answers to come through on this moderated website. How does that make you feel knowing your truths are hedged in and protected. Now, did Jesus send his apostles to the lost sheep in the land of Galilee and Judah? They were not lost by geography but spiritually. No one received the Spirit by obedience to the law save Christ. Stop telling us the lost sheep were in a diaspora. That denies the lost sheep of ancient Judah. Their were two commissions first for the Jews (you prefer Judahites I know) and then for the gentiles. Get used to it. In the second God sent his apostles to the Samaritans. Its clear plain and truth. Love God and worship in Spirit and in Truth.
Christians For Truth
Russ, you have been repeatedly warned about the comments you have posted on this issue. We told you exactly WHY some of your comments were not posted–because they are repetitious of what you’ve previously posted, while at the same time, you ignore all evidence that answers your objections, and NEVER, not even ONCE, have you acknowledged the validity of ANY of the explanations to your objections. And that means you are NOT an honest truth seeker–you are a propagandist.
And yet we have posted 99% of your hundreds of comments because despite disagreeing with you, we nevertheless believe it’s important to show readers how all of your objections can be thoroughly answered using scripture, history, and logic.
And, no, Russ, we are NOT “afraid” of the “truth” that you claim to be promoting. Why don’t you go to any Judeo-Christian website that agrees with your dispensational doctrine and start posting your antisemitic and racist opinions that you post here, and see how fast you truly do get censored? Judeo-Christians who believe what you believe are far more intolerant of the truth than we are– and you know that, which is why we are one your favorite websites, despite your complaints. As far as that goes, you have good taste in websites.
Peter there is are similarities between the mixed people of Samaria/Israel and the mixed people of Edom/Judah.
Samaria was allowed to convert see Acts. Its clear the Samaritans were not excluded and yet they were not through breds. Acts 1:8 and Acts 8. yet the exclusiveness of the CI gospel does not withstand the clear proof of scripture. Perhaps I cannot see it but there seems to be no help, here. Never getting to a point of clarity that Samaria was no included as the lost sheep of the house of Israel in Matthew 10 and the apostolic limited commission.
Now if Edom is rejected why do the CI believers not reject Samarians after all they were a mixed batch. You see they cannot as the scripture allowed for their conversion. As this then sets a precedent that all peoples can come to God. God is not a respecter of persons. Its is common knowledge the Jews divided the world between Jews and Gentiles. Nations. They just have not made their case clear and thus some get angry and insult. I however will stand until a pure truth is offered. Ester 8:17
Many from among the peoples of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews was fallen on them.
How did that happen if they were not of the house of Judah. Perhaps we will get a straight answer. How can you become Jews if it is a racial identity movement? Sure baffles theologins why on earth you can become Jews but can’t. We need answers.
There is no proof whatsoever that all the Samaritans were a mixed race people. None. You made that up. You insist on misunderstanding the phrase “no respecter of persons” which has NOTHING to do with a person’s ethnic or racial identity but rather his social standing. In Malachi God rebukes the Israelites for accepting the children of Esau into their fold and the priesthood. You ignore all of these facts because you have to. Your doctrine is built on sand.
This sounds like more multi-dispensational, replacement theological gymnastics. Explain the innumerable Jews who have come to Christ in the last 50 years, like Jews for Jesus, etc. Apparently you don’t believe the Prophets of old, like Hosea, the prophet to the Northern Kingdom Israel – who God divorced, but Judah He will never divorce – in the end, Judah is saved first. IF white Christians are indeed descended from the house of Israel, it’s a Name of Shame – not a claim to fame, IF they do not return to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and keep His commandments. The Torah wasn’t nailed to the cross – or Paul would have written ‘nomia’, ‘logia’ or ‘torah’. Instead he uses the word ‘dogma’ in Col. ch. 2, and later ‘dogmatizmos’ – these are the doctrines of men (oral law), NOT written law of Moses. “If you love me, keep my commandments” says my Messiah. The Aaronic priesthood is dead. Christ is our High Priest of the order of Melchizedek. There are rules to His Kingdom. Study to show yourselves approved.
God didn’t divorce Judah, huh? Which Bible are you reading? He “cast off” BOTH Israel and Judah. The Greek word “aphistami” is the verb translated to “cast off” or “divorce” used interchangeably. The noun form is “apoluo”.
This is why Christ is referred to as the “bridegroom” in the NT–in order for the bride, ALL of Israel, to remarry God after the divorce, the husband had to die first–that is why Christ had to die so that he didn’t break his own laws of divorce. This is proof that Christ came to regather and remarry Israel, not any non-Israelites to whom he was never married.
“And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.”
2 Kings 23:27
“Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.”
“And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.”
Read Zachariah 10:6 again. Are you saying all whites must return to the little land of Israel.
After all it does say I will again bring them to there place. This was fulfilled thousands of years ago in a remnant. You seem to ignore it completed fulfillment and now have a numerical problem of returning them too their place.
I assume you’re talking about Zechariah, not “Zachariah”? Zechariah 10:6 has NOTHING to do with “Jews” as all dispensationalists like yourself claim. Where does it mention “Jews” or “Jews” returning to the land of Israel? The only “Jews” returning to Israel are Edomites, and they will be destroyed per Obadiah.
Zechariah: “It shall be as though I had not cast them off…” is a prophecy of the coming of Christ and his regathering all of Israel, all the scattered sheep. And by that time Ephraim and Joseph would have lost their identity as such but would still be Israelites and regathered. Hosea confirms this.
Daniel writes, “Explain the innumerable Jews who have come to Christ in the last 50 years, like Jews for Jesus.”
Edomite Jews have “converted” to Christianity throughout the centuries. We saw the true fruits of it during the Inquisition–when their sincerity was shown to be lacking. The Jesuits, for example, were essentially a Jewish order founded by converso Jews–and their history of corruption and venality speaks for itself.
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”
“And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage.”
Christ chooses his sheep. They did not choose him. Today’s Edomite Jews can “convert” to Christianity in the same way all non-Israelites “convert”. They convert despite not being chosen. NO ONE can save themselves mere by claiming “I believe in Jesus.” They must first be “born of the spirit” or “born from above”, and that applies only to Israel.
Daniel, it would seem that Colossians 2 applies to you and your false universalism:
“8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
Christ came to release Israel from the “rituals of the law” not the law itself. You are confusing two issues here: the “rituals of the law’ (Leviticus) and the Mosaic Law. Christ did not come to do away with that Law but to fulfill it. And these “rituals of the law” are NOT necessarily the same thing as the “traditions of the elders” alluded to in John 15:25. The Edomites among the Pharisees had attempted to insert many of their Babylonian doctrines into the “rituals of the law” and falsely pass them off as coming from the Torah. This is the basis of the Jewish Talmud, which they falsely claim is based on the Torah.
Universalism and monotheism are “rudiments of the world” and Babylonian. Monotheism is the false idea that all cultures pray to the same god through their own unique customs–this is blasphemy and a negation of the First Commandment. Non-Israelites will always change Christianity to suit their pagan cultural traditions, which every missionary in the Third World has witnessed and lamented.
An awful lot of Name Calling going on all over this site. Hardly of the Holy Spirit – smells like something else. I’m of Saxon and Highland Scottish descent, and I recognize this sort Justice Perversion as “Just Us”. Who makes it to ‘The Wedding Feast’ in Rev. 7 are millions of people from every Nation, Tribe, Family and Language.
Christians For Truth
Daniel, this is a three part series, and there is already an established contention here that you walked into. The universalists are behaving like trolls and ignoring anything that contradicts their position, and when they are shown evidence that they are wrong, they never admit it or concede any point. That insincere attitude is creating a testy atmosphere here among those who are answering objections but being ignored.
Certainly you do not believe the likes of Joel Osteen and many, many others are true followers of the Christ?!!!
So, why do you simply assume “Jews for Jesus” are actual Christians? Or any “Jew” who claims to be one.
I find it ironic that your #1 argument here is to suggest since there is such a thing as “Jews for Jesus”, then the contents of this site must be in error.
I suggest you Study the “Core Topics” on this site. Understand the word “Jew” and what it means for starters.
Then research the great documentation here that the White Anglo Saxons (Caucasians) of the world are the Israelites of the Scriptures.
Something brought you here. Don’t blow it and ignore what is written here.
Good point, westwins, “Something brought you here. Don’t blow it and ignore what is written here.” Those who reject the truth once they’ve heard it have no excuse when the judgment comes.
But as someone once aptly observed, it’s much easier to convince someone of a lie than it is to convince them that something they already believe is a lie.
I’m NOT in Joel Osteen’s camp. Apparently you didn’t read my comment, or misunderstood it completely.
You said — “…………Explain the innumerable Jews who have come to Christ in the last 50 years, like Jews for Jesus, etc…….”
Would you like now to qualify or explain your point?
I was comparing “jews for jesus” to the billion “c.hristians” in this world who say they are christians, but are simply fooled or deceived into believing such.
“Jews” throughout the centuries have never produced Spiritual Fruit. And a “Christian” is someone who “follows” Christ. Not just makes a declaration of belief.
How many Jews can you name that have spoken out about their Tribe’s lies regarding the holocaust? Or how about their role in 9-11?
Since you accused me of “misunderstanding” your comment, here is your chance to qualify your statement above.
One more question for you —
Can you explain to us how we can get 4 Primary Races (white, black, yellow and red) out of ONE homogeneous couple?
I will assume you believe in a world wide flood. Noah was perfect in his DNA. We must assume Noah and his sons were homogeneous in race. Let us assume Noah was White/Caucasian. How do we then get black, yellow and red men emerge from the loins of a homogeneous white couple(s)?
Would we then also assume that if Iceland were to remain homogeneously White for the next 5000 years, would we eventually see the black and yellow man emerge from the loins of homogeneously White Icelandic couples??? In other words….eventually we will have black and yellow peoples living in Iceland by means of birth and not immigration?
I have been asking “Judeo-Christians” this question for the past 20 years. If they answer, they usually always suggest “micro-evolution” i.e., Environmental adaptation.
Is this your theory as well?
The belief that Anglo-Saxons were descendants of Israel has been debunked repeatedly. The word jew was coined to mean “a practitioner of the religion of Judah.”
There is only one name under heaven by which man may be saved. Christ died for all, including Jews. Because the term jew has come to be an ethnic as well as religious term, then “Jews for Jesus” do exist, and denying their existence is on the same level as denying gravity. It is a silly claim. There are many Jews that have accepted Christ as Savior, and it causes them no end of trouble.
Debunked by whom? By the same people who debunked the “conspiracy theory” that Israel was behind the 9-11 attacks? Universalism has been debunked repeatedly, but I wouldn’t expect that fact to convince anyone like you to believe that it’s been debunked.
No, your understanding of the word “Jew” in English is narrow and lacking–in the Bible it is always translated from the Greek “Ioudaios”, especially in the NT, it means “Judean” and does not necessarily mean “a practitioner of the religion of Judah,” and because of that misapplication, it has caused great misunderstandings of the meaning of the scriptures. The same is true with the misleading term “gentile” which was mistranslated from “ethnos”, which means “nations”, and it does not mean “Non-Jew”, which all replacement theorists like yourself insist upon.
“…..The belief that Anglo-Saxons were descendants of Israel has been debunked repeatedly………………”
As Goebbels famously said — “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
Is this your strategy here? Repeat and ignore….repeat and ignore…..
You and the many other universalists here who believe 4 primary races all emerged from the loins of ONE homogenous couple REFUSE to consider the Scriptural support/proof that the Bible was written for ONE race of men — the White race.
Go ahead Quartermaster…………..give it your best shot. I’ve never heard “your” version. Go ahead…………debunk it one more time. 🙂
Will you first have to convince me how it is possible to get 4 primary races out of ONE homogenous couple.
Will Iceland be filled with Yellow and Black men 5000 years from now???
Edit — You will first have to convince me how it is possible to get 4 primary races out of ONE homogenous couple.
Ok! Daniel you say the Torah was not nailed to the cross. How on earth do you explain the Law that which was written upon stone (ie 10 commandments) was fading away.
The Ten Commandments The New Covenant
written on tablets of stone (v. 4) written on the heart
the letter that kills (v. 6) the Spirit that gives life
a ministry that brought death (v. 7) ministry that brings life
engraved in letters on stone (v. 7) ministry of the Spirit
came with glory (v. 7) even more glorious
the ministry that condemns (v. 9) the ministry that brings righteousness
no glory now in comparison (v. 10) the surpassing glory
it came with glory (v. 11) much greater glory
it is now fading away (v. 11) the ministry that lasts
Again I ask you? Kill someone lately for not keeping the Sabbath?
You cannot have the Law and not the penalty for disobedience. The wages of sin is death?
The Law was nailed to the cross as is made nothing perfect it only revealed the Christ.
The whole bible is replacement theology. Sacrifice is replacement – sins of one place upon another. Scapegoat theology = replacement theology.
Paul of Tarsus is a perfect example of an Israelite Pharisee who initially rejected Christ and then embraced him. And if Paul could be converted, they why would God change his covenant and extend it to non-Israelites? It makes no sense. He wouldn’t
It does make sense because it says in Romans 5:
“12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many”
Plainly, in Adam there was death, but in Christ there is life. Jesus came to cleanse the sin of all Adamkind and not JUST Israel. As Paul says, Jesus Christ is the seed of Abraham. He is the promise. If you repent you will be adopted into the body of Christ and inherit the promises. Jesus’s salvation and the new covenant is for all of Adamkind.
Adam and Eve were of the same race, of “one flesh”. Therefore, ALL of their direct descendants (Genesis 10 nations) were of that same race–collectively known as Adamkind, his “kind” or direct blood relations. The first law of Genesis was “kind after kind”. They could not possibly have produced all the different races on Earth. That makes no sense. But what race was Adam?
Adam’s name comes from Hebrew “Aw dam” means “ruddy” and “to show blood in the face” or “to blush” (Strong’s Concordance #119). Jews try to deny this, falsely claiming that it means Adam came from the “red” earth, which is intentionally misleading because all Israelites through Abraham, Issac and Jacob are this same race and are described just like Adam:
David was the same race as Adam, and is described as “ruddy” (Strong’s #H132 cross referenced with Strong’s #119) which in today’s parlance means “show blood in the face”, i.e. able to blush, i.e., a trait of White people. It also describes him as “fair” (Strong’s #3303), meaning handsome, beautiful–and in English, “fair” means white-skinned, neither are traits of today’s “Jews” or non-Whites.
There were indeed pre-Adamic peoples alluded to in Genesis from whom Cain took his Kenite, non-Adamic wives…also, note how in Genesis 9:1 after the Flood, God commands Noah to “replenish” the world, “be fruitful and multiply”. The same command went to Adam to “replenish” the world (Genesis 1:28), but how can that be unless the earth wasn’t previously inhabited prior to Adam’s creation? We can safely conclude there were indeed non-Adamic peoples at the time of Adam’s creation.
Im aware of and believe that all adamites are white. That was never a point i was attempting to contest. People here seem to be so quick to jump on others who seem to think that not all adamkind is Israel. Somehow people seem to operate like Israel = adamkind. Rather Israel is a very small portion of Adam, or at the very least, was likely a small portion during Christ’s time.
Pheeny’s point was “why would God change his covenant and extend it to non-Israelites”. My point was that Christ came for the salvation of more than just Israelites, but all of adamkind. All white people.
Okay, so what people today, in your estimation based on historically verifiable facts, are White Adamic people but not White Israelites? In the time of Christ, there were, of course some:
The Ionian Greeks were Adamic but not Israelite, but the Danaans were Israelite, as were the Colossians, Thessalonians, and Philipians. The Medes were Adamic, non-Israelites. But that was 2,000 years ago or more….who are the Adamite, non-Israelites today?
I think that most whites today, at least the ones derived from Europe in the last 1500 years are likely to be Israelites. Most of European whites are said to have common lineage with Charlemagne. I’m not sure about the Russians though.
I also don’t think,based on my current understanding of the Bible, that the Colossians, Thessalonians, Romans, nor the Phillipians were Israel based on knowing that Paul was sent to be the apostle to the non-israelite nations of adamkind.
None of this matter though because the discussion was based on salvation at Christ’s time and who the apostle Paul preached to.
Thanks for the clarification, John. I wasn’t clear that that was your point initially. Yes, I agree with you that there were many Adamites at the time of Christ’s ministry. And my sense of it is that at times Paul seems to allude to them when he speaks of the “nations”, that the “nations” aren’t just the lost tribes of Israel, but they are members of the Admanic White race that would be suitable for marriage for an Israelite. After all, all of Jacob’s son’s must have taken Adamic, non-Israelite women as wives. That said, I have never sat down and identified all those instances where I sensed that Paul was alluding to these Adamics. However, in Acts 17 he directly addresses the Athenians who are not Israelites–they are descendants of Javan. Notice he doesn’t call them “gentiles”. Have you any ideas?
I think i mis-stated what i meant when i said “derived from Europe in the last 1500 years are likely to be Israelites”. I didnt mean that every single white European from the last 1500 years are Israelites, but rather the current population of Israelites has been 1500 years in the making.
I also dont think Paul was preaching to the nations because he found them suitable partners for Israelite seed (which they are, of course). I think he was genuinely preaching to them for the salvation of their souls and to be joined to Christ in spirit.
Thank you for the conversation!
John, I noticed that Johan’s comments posted above seem to address your concerns and objections concerning the Adamic Genesis 10 nations. Check them out–I found them very helpful and informative–and scripturally sound.
Im sorry brother, i forgot to answer your question about Acts 17 and Paul addressing the people of Athenes and not calling them Gentiles/nations.
Im not quite sure why he decided to not use the term nations here. However, he did call the people residing there “offspring of God” in Acts 17:29. He is acknowledging non-Israelites to be offspring of God. I think that is because, for the purpose of salvation, Paul sees all Adamkind as the same and potential brothers in Christ. He sees his own lineage as dung compared to the excellency of Christ. I think this is the reason he said in Titus 3:9 to avoid quarrels over genealogies as they are meaningless.
I think sometimes we get so caught up in the fallacy that beasts are somehow Adamic that we lead ourselves to go so far in the other direction which puts too much focus on our race resulting in reducing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
John, I don’t think that Paul thought of his own genealogy as an Israelite “dung”. After all, in Acts 26:6 he emphasizes his identity as an Israelite and the promises to the twelve tribes. His racial identity was important to him or he wouldn’t have said this.
And the admonition in Titus 3:9 isn’t over genealogies per se, but rather “foolish” genealogies. And in 1 Timothy 1:4 he admonishes over “endless” genealogies, not merely genealogies per se, or racial identity in general. They are two distinct issues.
It’s important to understand the context of these comments about “foolish” genealogies–Paul’s addressing Greeks who were notorious for believing in “foolish” and “endless” and “vain” genealogies that traces their lineage back to their mythical gods. And imagine how Greeks would have reacted to Paul telling them that they were descendants of Jacob-Israel, after having believed their were children of Zeus….but that’s what Paul was faced with here.
And remember that the genealogies of the Israelites had been lost during their captivities, which is why they lost their identity as Israelites. And King Herod, the Edomite, also ordered that all the genealogies in Judea destroyed in order to hide the fact that he and his fellow Edomites were not legitimate Israelites, as only an Israelite could sit on the throne over Judea.
As he said in Phillipians 3. If anyone thinks they have confidence in their flesh, Paul has the right to be even more confident, but its meaningless to him when compared to Jesus Christ:
“4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,”
I think you’re conflating two issues. What Paul is saying that while his race is important under the law, it must be fulfilled in Christ or it is in vain. Christ didn’t come to do away with the law but fulfill it. One isn’t literally negated by the other but rather augmented or fully realized. Paul abused his birthright by following the vanities and hypocrisy of the Pharisees, making it all for naught. Converting to Christ allowed him to live up to his birthright.
There is an obvious translation error here in the King James in Phillipians 8 where they use the word “dung”, which they mistranslate from the Greek “skubala” (Strongs #4657), which actually means “refuse” with no connotation of excrement but rather merely something to be thrown away….
And what Paul wishes to “throw away” is not his Israelite identity, but rather his “fleshly” life as a sinful Pharisee who tried to justify himself through the letter of the law and the rituals of the law rather than through the spirit of Christ.
How do we know what colour or race Eve was? proof please.
Eve was created out of Adam’s flesh, his rib. Same flesh. She was literally “flesh of his flesh” as all married Adamic couples should be to fulfill the law “kind after kind”.
Yes, good question: what do judeo-Christian dispensationalists claim that the Israelites were renamed? What is their new name if not Christians?